Generator Ep. 002 – Erica Manning

Matt Stagliano 0:01
Welcome to episode two of generator this podcast about creation. And in this episode I speak to my good friend Erica Manning, who is a portrait photographer out of the Columbus Ohio area. Now, Eric is specializes in high school senior portraits. She’s built an incredible business around this market. But not only does she succeed in business, she succeeds in competitive photography as well. Erica is a fellow with the portrait masters, which means it’s the highest level of accreditation that you can achieve. Her work is absolutely superb. And is often in the top 20 Out of all of the submissions. And we’re talking 10s of 1000s of submissions. I love this conversation with Erica, I think you will too. So let’s dive right in on with the show.

How you doing? I got it. I think the last time I saw you in person was was it portrait masters? 2019. Is that the last time I saw you in person?

Speaker 2 1:24
Yeah. Way too long ago. So

Matt Stagliano 1:28
you’ve been on it. You’ve been on a tear though. You’re traveling everywhere. You’re just in Spain, right? Yes,

Speaker 2 1:33
I was. My daughter is teaching English as a second language there. So she taught this whole year and I actually went to Barcelona in December of 21. To see her and then my husband and I went just beginning of April to see her again. And it was amazing. Spain and Portugal, just picturesque. I have 1000s and 1000s of pictures that I have not had time to edit since I’ve been home. So they’re just sitting on my harddrive waiting for a day.

Matt Stagliano 2:08
I’ve never been there. And you know, there’s a lot of friends of ours that are in Italy right now. And right my thought in going there and I wish so I traveled to Europe a lot in my my former job. And one thing before I was a photographer that I loved about it was just all these little picturesque scenes, right? And alleyways and nooks and crannies and stairways and all that sort of stuff and old people hanging in Windows. Right? And did you did you go over there and shoot anything with knowing that you’re doing composite work? Did you go over there? Like shoot any plates? Like, oh, I’m gonna get this back? Or I’m gonna be able to use this. Were you that forethought? Are you like the tourists? Like I would be and just kind of like, oh, look, cats.

Speaker 2 2:47
Yeah, a little bit of both. You know, I didn’t necessarily i i just do is beautiful. I mean that his history alone, of that place is amazing. We’re talking 1000s and 1000s of years versus a couple 100 here in the United States. So, you know, just buildings and architecture and everything is just so incredibly beautiful and old and has character. So most of the time, I was just taking pictures because I thought, you know, it was a beautiful application. But as the time went on, I’m like, Oh, I can see this as a background. I can see this as you know, so I do and have used a couple in composite since I’ve been back so so I guess I have edited some but it’s it’s from my composite work. It wasn’t for my personal use. So

Matt Stagliano 3:43
all of this out of you and stealing ideas. And I will not you know we had a conversation recently about inspiration versus theft. And if I see something of yours I’m absolutely 100% gonna steal it we’ll put that up there that way you won’t be surprised and it’s all premeditated. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, that’s that’s one of the things right so I’ve watched your work and for our listener out there who hasn’t seen your work you’ve done this amazing progression over the past couple of years from doing senior portraits like pretty standard senior portraits still at a you know a high professional level a good look, but you’ve progressed into this unbelievable I almost want to say fantasy world but I don’t want to call it fantasy world you’re just elevating the portrait experience right and now he’s kids are becoming these adult I almost said adult fantasy models and that’s what I meant.

Unknown Speaker 4:45
In your portrait realm that’s not

Matt Stagliano 4:49
the leaf please got the just the the character driven stories right maybe that’s it. You’re you become such an incredible storyteller with some of these images is Is this? Is that kind of where you always wanted to go with this? Or is it been just as you’ve developed like these things? Like, I’m gonna bring this girl to a gnarled tree in the forest and give her a crystal ball? And how’s that story? Like, how does that all develop?

Speaker 2 5:14
Well, okay, so, you know, I started out and a lot of this was driven by, you know, formally supervised education, and, you know, the portrait masters and like you said, you know, I started the accreditation process with them. And I, initially, I just was slapping in work that I normally did, and I did, okay. But I started to catch the bug, if you will, you know, I started to do well enough that I’m like, Oh, I really want to get to that next level, I really want to, you know, achieve a silver, I really want to, and, you know, seeing the work that was done at that level, I wanted to be able to do that. So I simply just started to try to think of concepts that were just more like, you know, a standard portrait of mine, at least, would do well, but it didn’t have enough of the story behind it. And that’s not to say senior portraits can’t have that. But the ones that I was taking, were taking, they were pretty, pretty simple, pretty basic. And so, of course, everything that has happened over the last few years, sometimes real world kind of just has not been, you know, all that great to begin with. So I started kind of taking my seniors and saying, Okay, let’s try something different, you know, trust me on this, let’s just do something a little out of the box. And in some cases, a lot out of the box, at least for high school seniors. And it just became fun. And it was a learning experience. For me, it was a great experience for my model teams, because it was different, it wasn’t something that everybody else was doing in the area. And so we we kind of fed off of each other. And then with each round, you know, like I said, it’s like an addiction, you know, I’m like, Oh, I, I did well, but I’m going to try something new, I want to try something just a little bit different. I want to and of course, my skill level has gone up and up and up over the past few years, too. So it’s it’s exciting to achieve the accolades and the awards. But honestly, just the the learning that has happened over the last few years has been phenomenal. And it’s just, you know, it, it’s what drives me it’s not it’s not the silver, gold, you know, fellow level, which they’re all great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s, you know, I have gone from here to here to here, and I just, I just want to keep going on that I don’t ever want to stop learning. I don’t ever want to stop growing. So that’s evolution.

Matt Stagliano 8:01
I picture right because every time I see you posting something online, you’re like, oh, yeah, by the way, I just got this goal that WP Oh, yeah, just by the way, just like 75 goals and portrait masters and by the way, you know, and I look at it, I’m like, you must have this master calendar on your wall of where all the start and end dates for submission periods. And don’t tell me that you don’t guarantee that you do. Now,

Speaker 2 8:26
I mean, I pay attention and then I only play in a few rounds right now, you know, but I have my eye on others. So I don’t want it to consume everything of who I am because I have different you know, I have to make money first of all, so I you know, a lot of that work is all you know, personal work it’s or work with my model team. So it’s not money making and in fact, often it’s money taking depending on how elaborate it is, but it is fulfilling and it also brings me like I said before it brings my level up and I’m you know, and people are aware that I am capable of doing these things. But I want to make sure that I’m you know giving attention to all parts of my business I’m not ignoring you know, my bread and butter just so I can enter these competitions all the time. But yes, I do have a calendar and and try to plan for you know, certain entry times and that sort of thing. I find spring in particular and incredibly creative time of year this just last month and this month have been very creative for me partly because for senior portraits. It’s a time when the previous class graduates and the new class is not quite ready to get their senior portraits. So I have my model team in place. I purposely picked them in January. So I am ready to go and have, you know, a plan for this group of students. And so when you know, March, April may hit, I am ready with some, you know, really different fun, exciting, creative things, and it’s just a blast I love this time of year I love love love that, that I’ve been able to, to create with them, especially over the last few months has been kind of a challenging time for me personally. So to be able to create it’s my therapy.

Matt Stagliano 10:36
Yeah, you know, it’s it’s been something that I’ve certainly seen in a lot of the work. And, you know, it’s Eric Manning, Eric Manning photo on Instagram, right and recommending photo. And all of the work that I’ve seen lately is so character driven is so story driven. Do you save that for the model team? Or do you approach like any senior that comes through, if you have enough planning time? Do you try to get you know, fantastical with their images, in addition to the ones that mom and dad are going to want to like, you know, as well, or is it mainly your, your your senior team.

Speaker 2 11:12
So it’s definitely my senior team, and they apply to be a part of my team, knowing that that’s what’s going to happen, I do offer it to my seniors, because the editing is different, and the styling is different, and it’s just a lot more involved, there is an additional charge to it. So it’s a type of thing where if some, if any senior comes to me and says I want to do that, if we’re not able to do it in their regular session, or it’s going to require that extra time, I steer them in the direction of a creative session, it’s an additional session and additional fee. Just because, while I love doing it, I also can’t do it, you know, in the realm of my normal senior session, so yeah, it’s available to anyone who wants it. And of course, if a senior comes to me, and they want to do something like that, they will have an idea. And so we will expand on that idea. Whereas my senior team, my my model team, the ideas are mine. And, you know, I’m the one who drives it all. And a lot of times, you know, I’m just like, I send the information to my hair and makeup girl and say, Please do this. And you know, that they really don’t have a say in it. Whereas my, my seniors, I want their session to reflect who they are not who I think they should be. So yeah, it’s available, but it doesn’t happen a lot. It has happened, but it doesn’t happen a

Matt Stagliano 12:44
lot. So I guess, you know, I’m super curious as to the why, why this, right. Why go the extra mile? Why? Why go through all this elaborate storytelling for senior pictures, right. And I only say that because, you know, as we strike the balance between artists and business person in creative and you know, all the things that we are, there’s always a reason behind the stuff right in for me, I know, when I’m shooting clients, it’s about connection, less about props, less about, like, overt story and sets. And it’s more about real depth in connection. That’s my thing, right? And I like that. I know, for you, you draw inspiration from so many places, and you’re able to create this through a mastery of technique, and, you know, just endless inspiration and creativity. But the why is always fascinating to me, right? Why choose to do this for seniors, when you can, you know, probably get eight or 10 more seniors a year if you didn’t spend the time doing this, right. where’s the where’s the why for you? And in getting to this level of senior portraiture, portraiture for that matter, like, you know, the competition level for the everyday person. It’s phenomenal. Why why do you do that? Well,

Speaker 2 14:07
as I mentioned before, it’s a way to learn everything that I learned through my creative work, I am usually able to apply in some modified way to my regular work, and I have seen my regular work get better and better and better by having the skills by knowing how to do all these things. So that is one. The second thing is it sets me apart. You know, nobody that I know, especially in the senior portrait realm in my market is doing anything like this, you know, so I don’t look like everybody else. And and I’m very happy about that. You know, some people may find it weird, but those are not my people. So So, and I have always had a have creative component to me. And just the standard senior portraits. It had gotten to the point where it was starting to suck the joy I it got so routine, that the joy of it was being sucked away. And so by doing these creative things, it gives me that outlet, it allows me to just kind of free my mind and expand my horizons and explore, not on my clients dime, because, you know, they come to me wanting a specific thing. And if I’m out here exploring, then you know, I’m not giving them what they want. So it allows me to, to explore in a sense in a creative way, and which gives me life and allows me to do what I do the rest of the year, and do it creatively. It adds a little bit more creativity back into my regular sessions.

Matt Stagliano 16:02
Yeah, and I wasn’t lying when I said earlier that I’m unbelievably inspired by your work all the time. And I’m like, How can I steal this? Look at the work that you do. And I’m like, I can’t do that. It can take a person into the woods, and I could take a picture, I can do this stuff, right. And it’s always inspiring to me. And I know that, you know, one of the things that I see you doing a lot is you create a ton of content, right outside of editing pictures, there’s reels and tiktoks and lip syncs, and behind the scenes, and I get exhausted watching you. Because it’s an endless wellspring of energy. Right. But my question in all of that, besides blowing smoke at you and just saying how wonderful you are, I can keep that going. Is I do you watch the trends? Right? So you got to shoot recently with one of your senior team members did like a whole Peaky Blinders feel to it? Right? Yeah. Do you look for trends like that on Tiktok? And Instagram, whatnot? And does that inspire some of the sets? And is that strategic? Or is it just kind of you’re influenced by what you see, and hey, this would be fun to try. Or what kind of strategic is in there for you? Okay, so

Speaker 2 17:16
as far as my themes for my sessions, I don’t feel that I get my inspiration from social media, for those inspiration comes from other areas, just you know, maybe what, what I enjoy. Sometimes it’s what I can get my hands on at a thrift store, or, you know, a vintage store, if I see something and oh, I could do something with that. And then that kind of spurs other ideas. I had that that happened with my, my peacock image years ago, I found a ugly costume. And then I did a whole series of bird images, just because I found that one so so it’s kind of weird how the, you know, it progresses and moves and evolves. So inspiration for the images themselves, I think come from, from those areas. Now I do as far as social media, the beast, you know, I feel like I have to feed the beast. So I create content, you know, the reels and stuff like that. That’s definitely, you know, trend driven, like, you know, and I even did a reel joking about the fact that I was doing research, you know, by watching reels, you know, my dirt, you know, my guilty pleasure of, you know, mindless scrolling, but I do I get ideas and and it helps me mark it and it helps me. I don’t know, I mean, I not a single thing I put on social media is necessarily something that I’m like, I want this to go viral. I want I want everybody to see this, you know, honestly, I’m just trying to communicate my art. I’m trying to communicate my personality, because I want clients to know that, you know, I can be a decent person to work with and, you know, it communicates ideas, it communicates information, like I did one when I was leaving to go out of town, I did a real you know, about my, the Spanish I’ve learned or you know what I mean? So, it’s just to kind of communicate, and I want to do it in an entertaining way. So people aren’t just like, Oh, she has a post about you know, she’s gonna be out of town. You know, it’s, it’s entertaining. And hopefully I’ll engage more with my clients by doing that.

Matt Stagliano 19:42
What do you do for fun with those like, do you find a sound and right so not gonna lip sync not gonna dance. No one needs to hear that. I don’t care how authentic you want to make. Not dancing. I’m not doing it. And I say this on you know Friday, June 22, just in case someone is like, you’re dancing, you’re gonna do it. Or maybe we’re

Unknown Speaker 20:10
gonna do dancing real

Matt Stagliano 20:12
Margarita. Like, and all my credibility goes out the window. But you know, I watch. I’ve watched a lot of Tiktok in Instagram reels, and I’m Doom scrolling all the time, right. One of the things that I have trouble with is as a video maker, I want things to be so polished that I get caught up in the perfectionism of it, right? I’m like, I and believe me, I totally get the authenticity and people want to just watch people doing weird shit, right, and lip synching and having fun and it’s an escape from reality and escape from all this stuff. And I think that’s why it’s it’s so relatively addicting. But as someone that makes a lot of videos, the short form seven second 10 Second 15 Second thing is almost lost on me. Because there are so many ideas and so many sounds in so many ways that you can go that it never gets produced. So I say all that to say this. How, how do you do it? How do you do schedule a day like Mondays from 10? To 12? I’m going to do nothing but content creation? Or is it spur the moment? Do you keep stuff on your phone late at night? And then address it the next morning? Like? How do you? How do you figure out what to do when to do it? How to put it out? Do you do 97 drafts of it? Where does where does the Erica the perfectionist creative who I see, you know, worrying over every pixel in an image versus I’m gonna, you know, lip sync to Megan, the stallion, you know, like, where do you where did that all fly? How do you balance the perfectionism that I know you have? And putting out you on Tiktok or Instagram or whatnot?

Speaker 2 22:06
Yes. Yes to all of that. First of all, I am a perfectionist, especially when it comes to my images. And I will pour over them for hours. And but you know, that’s that is work. That’s my thing. That is, you know, my major. Okay, so the reels and stuff like that, while they are important. Their perfection is not important. The fact that they get out there is important. So I will, like you said Doom scroll, I’ll see a sound or I’ll hear a sound obviously that, that I think, Oh, I could use that in XYZ, and I’ll save it, I probably save 1000s of sounds that will never get used. I you know, I’m like I could I could I could and then the so then I will sit down once or twice a month and go through the sounds that I have, and kind of come up with ideas that I could do with those sounds. And then I’ll try doesn’t always work, I’ll try to have some sort of calendar. Okay, I’m going to try to do this many this week with that sound. But it also depends on what else I have going on. Like right now my my reels are mostly showing the work that I have done. And so I somehow put those two, either music or whatever, trying to get the timing, you know, so it’s, it looks entertaining. But in, you know, times when I’m not shooting a lot, I will do these, you know, the voiceovers, which I find pretty easy. They’re one of the easiest things I can do. And you’re gonna laugh, but I film those according to the days that I actually get ready. If if I it’s an editing day, and I have no makeup and I look like total dog crap, we will not be filming reels those days. But if I have a shoot, and I’m meeting with clients, and I actually put some makeup on and I you know, I will film probably two or three and then have them in the hopper. So, you know, on a low day or week that I’m not you know doing anything or putting any content reels and I am putting one of these silly voiceovers. So, I probably have at any given time four or five that are in the wings. Sometimes that doesn’t always work well because by the time I am thinking about posting it, that sound has been overplayed. And then like, I don’t want to I don’t want to post this anymore because then it just seems like you know, redundant so so you know, it’s a give and take but it seems to work for me at least well enough. So

Matt Stagliano 24:57
you know it’s it’s funny to talk about the sounds moving so quickly in the trends, right, I’m like, man, I’ve finally reached that age, right clearly where I can bring back all the music that I grew up on, and no one will have ever heard it before. And it will be fresh and new. You know, thinking about the 1000s of vinyl records down and one of my rooms, and I can just kind of dig through that for days and just flood Dick talk with all sorts of new sounds. So, you know, if you want to start a subscription service, that’s fine, you can subscribe to me, I’ll just send you new sounds every week. And we’ll see how that goes, we think it’s great. You’re gonna be my only customer. So I better make it work that I suppose. So. You know, I’ve noticed not only do you shoot the seniors, but you you have your self portrait game is super strong, which is why you’re here, right? Because what you put in the group was so astounding. And it’s something that, you know, as I’ve watched the work that you do, from a personal standpoint for your seniors, and then really the self portrait work, you expose so much of your heart and your inner thought and your pain and your happiness. In all of the self portraits, you find that there’s a release there? Or do you find that it’s just a way to mark a moment in time? Do you do it because it’s been a creative itch that you’ve had for a long time? Is it a mix of everything? I know that a lot of people struggle with self portraits because one, they don’t like seeing themselves in front of a camera, which get over it, too, when they don’t feel and this is more my thing that you don’t have a topic in which to you know, express yourself. So what’s your process like for self portraits, right? Is it just you feel that thing? And you’ve got to create immediately? Or is it more like, Alright, I’ve got this thought, I really want to think through this theme, and work on all the elements, how quickly do you go through, you know, some of that process. Um,

Speaker 2 27:05
so Okay, back in play, I have done self portraits for years, because it started out as a way to test lights, I have an ugly doll in my studio that I will, you know, use as a lighting test, but it’s creepy, and it’s ugly. And it’s really a Not good, not a good representation of how the light actually falls on a human being. It’s a doll. So, so I started to take pictures of myself, you know, got the self timer, or the remote. And you know, that I found that they were good profile pictures. So that’s how it started. Then I started to want to tell a little bit of my story, whether that be you know, my natural habitat, or what I’m feeling inside, or you know, and it could be humorous, or it could be a little more deep or could be, you know, just insightful. And a way to tell my story, I mean, people can make assumptions about me, either based on my, the images I make, or I can help them formulate that opinion of me. And so that’s when I started doing self portraits that were a little more meaningful in one way or another as far as the time it takes to create them or the creative process, it depends on what it is. And you know, how first of all the technique that I am going to use and then also you know, is there a lot of styling is it just you know, I did I did one with Norm my cat who seems to be love norm make his way into a lot of my images because he and I are two peas in a pod. He’s a jerk. I’ll just put that out there. But I love him. Anyway, so I did I did a shoot with him because actually it was the time that portrait masters was having the self portrait, you know, that was a category. I’m like, I got this I can do this. I you know, I like doing self portraits so literally 90% of the time in my life is spent in front of my computer editing with my cat by my side. So that was one of those I want to show my natural habitat you know, and so you know, I brought a backdrop put it behind me because it’s a little busy behind my where my computer is set up my camera used to speed light had it under the hood of my screen like shining at me and took about 1000 shots because norm was all over the place. I even made a real about that because you know, but so the camera is going and knocking over stuff he’s you know, but finally got one with him sitting next to me and I’m like, boom, that’s you know, there it is. There’s my shot. So, so that was a good and humorous representation of who I am and how I spend my days. And subsequently, it was actually my number one viewed reel ever. I’m convinced that the magic formula for reals is that you need to have some sort of furry animal. So. So that’s, there you go.

Matt Stagliano 30:25
A whole different Instagram. Right? So you said something in there that made me write a quick note. And I’d love to know what assumptions that people make about you, you’re just like, I’m going to cut them off of the past so that they can’t make the assumptions. But that clearly indicates that assumptions have been made about you at one time or another. What were those assumptions?

Speaker 2 30:48
One in particular, is that a lot of times, I prefer images of seniors that are a little more somber. Of course, I take ones where they’re big smiles, and, you know, laughing and happy. And you know, and I post some of those, but most of what I post is just more of that. I think it’s timeless. I mean, when you look at historic images of people, they are not smiling, they have more of a serious look. And I think Richard Woods said you can see into the souls of people when they’re not smiling. And I, I feel that too, so. So I post a lot of images of, of, you know, not smiling seniors, well, that can give people the impression that I’m serious. And that I’m you know, so I wanted to show that I’m, you know, I can be funny, I can I can laugh at myself, I can, you know, so. So that is one assumption in particular that I wanted to debunk. I wanted to tell people No, you know, we have fun in our sessions, we, you know, it’s a good time. And yes, I do take pictures of people snap smiling. I just, I prefer the ones for people or not. So. So that’s, that is one thing. No, I

Matt Stagliano 32:11
five to use this or because you know, I do the same thing that you know, anyone that comes into the studio, we have laugh, we have a great time. And then I’ll post a picture. They’re really serious, and they’re looking dead into the lens. And they’re like, you chose that one. I’m like, much they’re like, incredible. And they’re like, what I like the smiling one. I’m like, by the smiling one. I miss one like? Yes, but yeah, I think I think there’s, there’s something there because I was looking at, you know, more of the stuff in your Instagram. And as you know, I was getting ready, I see your stuff all the time. But rarely do I ever look at an artist friend in aggregate, right? I can almost pick out your work or cat’s work, or Johnny Edwards work or Leon’s work, and know that it’s them, right. And that’s an amazing place to get to as an artist is to have your style recognized. And I can like that with your stuff. And I think, you know, with that, you do adhere to a little bit of that style. And you create this style. As I’m looking at your images, you know, the serious seniors, like you’re putting, you’re putting these young adults into situations that are timeless and amazing in these scenes that are incredible. The warehouse that you were in with all of those windows, and you’re bringing people to these locations that are atypical, right, it’s not just a studio, and now you’re putting them in costumes that are atypical, you know, I can understand why people would assume certain things, but you’re creating something so different that I haven’t seen, you know, not only in the senior market, but in a lot of the adult portrait market. I’m not seeing this right. Canvas backdrops are a thing, right. golden wheat fields are a thing. Hyper blurred backgrounds are a thing for newborns, right. You’re creating this mix of fantasy and Vanity Fair. And it’s such a unique take on a lot of these typically standard images that I’m blown away by it. So that being said, I would never assume that you’re like kind of this dark brooding person because I’ve seen but the point being there’s so much conscious choice in this styling, right? Was there some level of influence in that in the stuff that you saw? Were there other photographers that you saw and got inspired by Is it music that you’re into? Is it a type of lighting? Is it being lazy and saying I just want to use one speed light like for me that’s almost everything can be traced back to laziness. So for for you is there like One thing that you can always trace it back to, is it the development of the story? Is it a certain look? Is it working with the personality? Where do you, you know, where did you start to develop this style outside of wanting it to be different? Why that more serious, darker style versus bright and airy? What is it in you that gets drawn to that?

Speaker 2 35:21
Okay, so I don’t know if there’s any one thing that would be very difficult for me to pinpoint one thing. I learned early on that my style is not light and airy. I love it. I think it’s beautiful and, and stunning. I just don’t do it well, and I didn’t like it more than the dark and moody. So I tended to develop what I knew I was able to do. And I feel like I have honed in on how to do it well. So I you know, I have gone that route, do I do it? Sometimes, if that’s what a client wants, you know, that’s what I’ll do. But nine times out of 10, you’re gonna look at my Instagram feed, and it is going to be dark, you know, lots of Shadows of drama, which I love. So, I would say that that’s an honestly, part of that is because the ceilings in my studio are black. It sounds ridiculous. But for me to get light and airy, I have to do a lot of stuff change a lot of things to make that happen. And maybe it’s me being lazy, I don’t want to do that. I want it to be what it is so. So that might play a little bit into it. But But I prefer it. I prefer it that way. So yeah, so I feel like a little bit of both I you know, I like it that way. But also, I you know, that’s that is the direction I have gone. And it’s just easier to stay on that

Matt Stagliano 37:04
direct. It’s you and it and it works for you. And like I said, I think it’s it’s so outstanding. And what I mean by that is not only good work, but it stands out from everything else that I see. Right. And there’s, there’s this cinematic quality to it that is not necessarily just the lighting or the editing, but again, it’s just always coming back to that story. So off of your photography a little bit, the storytelling aspects. You know, knowing that you’ve been traveling, knowing that you, you know, have this wide variety of stuff that you pull from, you’ve had a very varied life, and it’s wonderful. What are you doing this weekend? You got to see Jurassic Park, the Top Gun, like, where are you drawing your influence from for next year? senior team? Are you going to the Ren Faire? Like, where do you? Where do you get the, like the cinematic ideas? And is it just part of everyday life? You just kind of going around being like, I see this woman holding a crystal ball, that’s gonna be or, you know, I’m just I’m always curious, because I feel so uncreative all the time. You know, I’m just a background and a one light guy. And maybe I just need to get out of the house more, but I’m like, you’re in front of your computer. 90% of the time, I’m in front of my computer 90% of the time, why can I do what you do? Where do you get the storylines.

Speaker 2 38:24
So okay, so for my style sessions with my senior team, I’ll pick them and then I will try to pick topics that may or may not interest them. And by that, I mean like, for example, this year, I had five or six different shoots that I did, and my seniors could pick, my team could pick two that they wanted to do most. So you know that? In the past I, I picked kind of wacky out there like the bird thing. I mean, what senior is gonna be like, I want to be a bird, you know what I mean? So, um, so I do try to now create topics or themes that at least they can either relate to or enjoy. For example, I did style through the decades, okay. And I put that out to my senior team and I said, Okay, you know, pick any decade that you would want to do if that’s the session you want to do you pick your decade, you tell me what decade you’d want to be photographed in. And I had four people interested, fortunately, for different decades, that fit them perfectly. Like I couldn’t even believe how it all came together. So so for that particular session. I had their decades I had what they looked like I had their sizes and everything so I knew you know what I was looking for. And then I just start so sourcing sourcing, you know, going to vintage stores going to flea markets going to thrift stores, trying to as inexpensively as possible find things that would work. I also because it’s a, it’s an overall theme of decades, I wanted at least one thing that would kind of tie them together. So I did a radio or some sort of music playing device. So I did 1920s radio, I did a record player from the 50s, I did a 1970s, kind of retro looking radio. And I did a boombox from the 80s. And so each scene had the radio so you could get the feel of the different decades. But then, of course, the retire was different, the mood was different, of course, 80s was way different than 70s, and everything else. So it was just fun to have that unfold. That’s not the idea I had in the beginning, that my beginning idea was just fashion through the decades, it was only when I knew the people I was playing with an eye. And I knew the decades I was working with, that the rest of it just started. And I mean, the it involves like waking up at 3am and going. Yes, you know, and writing it down, and then expanding on that, that idea. So it’s a process. It’s not like, I come up with the idea. And then I, you know, plan it and nail it. It evolves. It evolves over time. And that’s generally speaking how any one of my sessions will happen.

Matt Stagliano 41:41
Yeah, it’s really interesting, like the and that’s kind of that attention to detail, right then being a kind of a music nerd and seeing the radios and the record players. And I was just like, where do you get that? Like, I don’t have vintage shops like that where I am. So I was looking, I literally honed in on that mid century 70s Like consoles area that you had, I was just like, I want that in my house right here about a photoshoot. I’m like, I want that thing myself. How many of those, how many of the props that you buy? Do you hold on to like forever? Is there like another wing of your house?

Speaker 2 42:13
So I’m coming up with an idea. And I’m putting it out there right now. And it’s, I think it would work in any local market. Like I have so many props. Way too many props. My studio is a house for crops now. Because I’ll get them I’m like, Oh, I can use that later. And maybe I will maybe I won’t. I don’t know. Another thing I purchase for almost every one of those was a light some sort of, you know, vintage light that goes. Yeah, so um, I do hold on to them way longer than I should. But what I want to do is formulate a prop Co Op with other local photographers. And so yeah, Facebook. I can rent it to other people. And so can anybody else who is a part of this Co Op, they can rent their props or possibly sell them. So this is an idea that’s percolating in the back of my head. Of course, I haven’t had time to do anything because that would mean I’d have to photograph every single

Matt Stagliano 43:17
talk Erica. time in the world.

Unknown Speaker 43:22
It’s true. So true. Yeah. So

Matt Stagliano 43:29
I have an auction site Erica Bay, like eBay or something like that. And don’t you be onto it? No, it’s actually a really good idea. Right. So the proper rental market especially amongst photographers in certain genres, I think would work great. In a local area, right? I’d be happy to lend out anything that I have for people including the studio where people to use if I think it’ll go to use there’s so many things that I have. Chair I’m a big furniture junkie, so I studios full of chairs and Ottomans and couches and stools and boxes and things like that, and I was looking at it the other day going, I don’t have room for this shit anymore. It’s just overwhelming. So you know, knowing you knowing Richard wood has, you know, an entire prop like closet wing of his house. I’m always curious as to what people do because I run out of space really quickly. And I’m never like, Oh, let me just get you one of these. I will get seven of them because just in case you know, and it’s so stupid. So it’s nice to know that one I’m not alone in any of that. But do you find yourself once I photograph something, it almost becomes like I’m never using that again. Yes. Why the hell am I holding on to it so do you have like your macro may lamp which I love it go great in this house by the way, I get rid of it. But like a lamp like, right, unless that’s part of your decor is probably going to sit in the lump in a closet somewhere.

Speaker 2 45:09
Yes, do you ever use that is something that potentially because there’s a you know, there’s some seniors who love the groovy 70s feels. So that is potentially something I could use in a regular senior session if somebody were to come to me and say they wanted it. But yeah, if part of those things like especially the things that I make, like if the peacock for example, I made this huge, like almost shawl type thing that went that made of Peacock Feathers, it takes up a lot of space. Space, I don’t have it’s no one, as far as I know, will ever wear that again, but I feel a connection to it. I love that thing. So it’s probably displayed in my EMP closet room. And you know, we’ll see if it ever if it ever leaves there? I don’t know. But what was that? Go ahead?

Matt Stagliano 46:10
Is this something that you would use? Because you just did a, like a workshop? Like a creative workshop? Would you ever use something like that in any of your workshops and let people take images of something that you know, you were basically known for? For creating it? Do you have any weird feelings about letting other people create with your,

Speaker 2 46:29
I have no problem with somebody else? And if that’s what they wanted to do, then I definitely would a lot of times. So when I create content for for workshops, I like to create new ideas, and then go with those mentees through that process. So they can see how it happened. I guess I could take previous ideas, too. But at least for the workshops that I’ve done, I want to create something new and fresh, because it’s content for me to you know, it’s going on my website as well. So I don’t necessarily want to redo something that I have done in the past.

Matt Stagliano 47:13
Yeah, it’s in that amazes me, right, I see a lot of people that kind of, they’ll say, this is how I made the shot, and then they’ll recreate it every single time. I’ve been to workshops, where you know, the instructor might be known for solids, like this is how I create it, but it’s the same exact look. And what I find is, and this is where I have problems with with workshops, I don’t know how you feel about this, I don’t like to be told, these are my settings, this is what you have to set your camera at. There’s the model, we set up the lights point and shoot. There’s no application of problem solving in that at all. Right, right. So when you go about this stuff, especially when you’re teaching, right, because I would I would attend your workshop in a heartbeat. But you know, it’s that whole restraining order thing. The thing that I love about learning from people like you is the process. It’s not, here’s my settings, here’s what I do, it’s like, here’s how I solve this problem of sourcing a prop or thinking about the light for this particular mood. So, you know, in your workshops, are you very conscious of how people are approaching that? Or do you just kind of say, here’s what I do, here’s how I create these images? Or do you really force them to problem solve on their own and create something that’s unique to them?

Speaker 2 48:38
So I mean, in my workshops, I am not necessarily teaching them exactly how to replicate, you know, a specific image, a specific pose, it’s here are different lighting techniques that I use and the different scenarios that I would use them. You know, different moods, different lights create different moods. So you know, are you wanting something dark and moody? Are you wanting something bright? Are you wanting something serene and soft? Are you you know, what is it you’re trying to photograph? What story are you telling? Storytelling? That’s what we’re doing here? What story are you telling the these are the lights that will tell you even in this last workshop that I did, we sat down to Edit and I was talking about color grading and I’m like, I would love to tell you that here you hit this button and it is done. I’m like I spend hours like I’ll do something and then I’ll spare I’ll stare I’ll stare I’ll think I’ll shut the computer off go away. Come back look at it again. Tweak, you know, make changes. You know, I joke that it takes me forever to edit my images but so much of that time is just staring at the screen deciding if that’s what I like or not. And so it is a process it is not a you know, magic formula, and my hope in teaching that is is that I’m able to help them work through their process. It doesn’t necessarily have to be my process. But I think two different artists are going to arrive at very different results, even with the same process, you know what I’m saying? So, so it’s not my goal to create a bunch of air commanding clones. I mean, first of all, that’s, you know, I love to see people be better off,

Matt Stagliano 50:27
oh,

Speaker 2 50:30
you just go on man. No, I just, I feel like, you know, everybody has their own inner voice that, that I’m just trying to help them find that. And here are the techniques that I use. And there are certain like, skills and methods that people can learn, but it’s how they apply them in their own style that is going to make the difference. So so that’s really what I try to teach in my, in my workshops, it’s not, you know, it’s not you’re gonna do this, and then create exactly what I just created. Because what’s the fun of that?

Matt Stagliano 51:09
What’s the fun of that? And I think, you know, there’s, it’s really interesting is I’ve kind of gone along in the photographic journey, and try to learn from as many people as I can. Very few instructors that I’ve met this, the good ones that stick with me, ask the question, Why? Why are you doing that? are like, alright, well, I want to, I want to take a picture of this. Well, why? Why are you and it’s not to trap anybody into an answer. It’s just to understand thought process. And I think we’ve become so accustomed to things being easy and laid out and, you know, tutorial after tutorial you want to do it with this way you want to produce this light here is, you know, an ebook on that. And it’s very easy to get information. But I’m seeing less and less put into the aspect of thinking through the why of the choices that you’re making. Right, right. And one of the you know, like one of the things I see a lot in, because you and I are in a lot of the same groups. And one thing I see a lot is, you know, what camera should I get? What backdrops should I get? What lighting should I get? Right? And it’s, it’s a very, it’s a very good question to ask when you’re just starting out. But I’m always that Dick that comes across as like, Why? Why do you need Profoto? Lights over policy buff? Why do you need an N over Fuji or Nikon? Like why? What’s the what’s the reason? Anything? Give me a good reason. Great. I’m all on board. But I’m at least going to ask you why. What is it that you’re seeing? And if it’s, I see Person X over here creating work, and that’s the camera and lens that they use? And I like that look? Perfect, perfectly good answer. But if you come at me with I don’t know, then Alright, we’re gonna start there. Right? What is it that you’re using? Now? That doesn’t work for you? Right? What’s your What’s your why? Right? And there’s not a lot of people that are doing that. And they might say, you know, I’ve been able to choose my genre, like, here’s why I want to shoot seniors, or here’s why I want to shoot newborns or whatever. But there’s very few people that are able to give me the whys of every choice that they’re making myself included half the time, almost like, I don’t know, I want to see what happens. Right. But the why, for me is always one of the most important things, the intention behind it. So, you know, as you interact with your students, have you found that more people are leaning towards? And I’m not saying this specific to you, but more leaning towards just tell me how it’s done? Or do you find a trend amongst newer photographers that they’re really trying to understand the wise and are making choices specific to them? Is there something that we can do as a larger community to kind of address the whys over the house?

Speaker 2 54:04
You know, that’s a great question. I don’t know. I feel like in my experience with the will, you’re talking in regards to mentees correct or that people?

Matt Stagliano 54:18
Anybody that you’re talking to that’s that’s trying to progress in the craft, right. Because we’re shoveled so much information of how to do stuff, right, do this and you’re making a million dollars, do this and you’ll sell stuff to clients. Right? And no one’s really asking the why. Right. And or they forget about that portion of it. Right. So I didn’t know what trend you were seeing. And the people

Speaker 2 54:43
I think, in the of the mentees that I’ve had with people that I am you know, have closely worked with. I feel like they generally come in with that why? mentality like they there’s something deeper There have been just I want to learn skill XYZ. And maybe it’s because of the type of, like I’m doing creative. Mentoring, I’m not doing this is how you, you know, whatever, I’m doing something a little more creative. So a lot of times when people are coming into that, they, they have that creative mindset. It’s, it’s, you know, I’m not teaching business classes, although I could be. I’m big on process, and you know, but that’s, you know, for my business side of things, I’m big on process. So that handles itself, so I’m able to be creative. And so long story short, I feel like, personally speaking, my work got so much better when I was able to be in touch with my my why, and also started focusing on that storytelling aspect, whether it’s my stories that I’m telling through the creative things that I do, or my clients stories that they are telling through their senior portraits or whatever, just images are better, when it’s not just a picture, you know, there’s something deeper to it. So I think that, you know, the artists boards in general, I think, has been a huge or has had a huge impact on my, the way I think about what I do. And, you know, I hope that more and more people latch on to, to what they’re teaching, because it is, like you said, so very different than all the tutorials that are out there. It just, it teaches you how to think like an artist, as opposed to, you know, like a robot, you know, which gives the image just so much more. And I

Matt Stagliano 56:57
think, you know, that’s one of the things about being involved with the artist boards that are really like is that aspect of it, right is being non traditional. There’s so much room in this whole education landscape, for everybody to teach everything. And, you know, what, if you and I taught a lighting workshop, right, and we’re given one light and one camera, we would teach it totally differently, and the winds would be different. And so I think there’s room for everybody to be out there and teaching there’s no right or wrong. But what we found after doing so many just kind of morning clubhouse, Hangout chat talk, we were like, we should probably do something about this. Because the people that are showing up, are asking more about thinking through issues rather than just give me the solution. And it was kind of we stumbled into it. I’d like to say that I mean, I’m sure Nicole put more thought into it than that. But it was just this formulation of how do we get more people to ask these questions and have these conversations. And it’s not to say that we have the answers. It’s just, let’s all talk to each other about oh, there’s some shared experience here. Oh, yeah, you have those days to perfect. Let’s just kind of open the kimono and talk about all that stuff. So yeah, it’s been it’s been awesome having you in there too. Because you, you know, you’ve been able to explain from your side, after you’ve been in business, what 12 years. You’re Yeah. So after, you know, 12 years, if you ain’t learn something in 12 years, right? Then you’re probably should change your career. But I love when you come into the group because you give such a depth of knowledge and experience that is so valuable to hear, even for those of us that have been doing this a while to hear someone else go through that same struggle or deal with the same stuff is really really important. And can often get lost in this sea of here’s how you do it cookie cutter Instagram, influencer Board of Education. And so that’s why I’m always excited when you show up in the morning. Like, where is he?

Speaker 2 59:13
Well, we all want like, you know, I I learned by doing a lot of things wrong, you know, and ideally, we want the people that we are reaching and teaching and you know, it’s kind of like your kids, you know, you just you want that that learning curve to be shorter. You want them to learn faster. So this industry as a whole is better. So yeah, I feel like my experience has made me better if I’m able to share that and help somebody else in a small way. So they don’t have to make the same mistakes or you know, gotta go down the path that you know, I went and then change course. You know, and I feel like everybody in that morning group has a lot of that to offer. You know, there’s a lot of experience a lot of and a lot of varied experience there that I just love. I love to listen. And a lot of times I am just listening, you know, to I forever am learning forever. I’m learning I don’t ever want to stop learning so So yeah, that’s it’s been a great, great group for me to

Matt Stagliano 1:00:26
Where’s norm right now I haven’t seen him pass by is probably

Speaker 2 1:00:29
sleeping somewhere. He sleeps majority of the day until he and it’s almost better. You know? I mean, I don’t want to wait the sleeping piece. Until we go to bed. And then he’s sweet, sweet, sweet, but I just Yeah, yeah, he’s

Matt Stagliano 1:00:50
found any triggers, like do you click a mouse and suddenly he’s up, he’s like, Oh, I can go sit on our keyboard for the next like, three hours while she edits.

Speaker 2 1:00:58
food motivated, in particular, sandwich meats and rotisserie chicken. And so I just open the baggie of sandwich meaning that he flies in the air. So normally, when I need him to be in an image, I have to use sandwich meat or chicken or something like that, to get him to even remotely do what I want him to do.

Matt Stagliano 1:01:20
I’m food driven the same way if I’m getting my portrait taken, you’re gonna toss me chocolate covered pretzels, like, and I’ll just snap to it. Like, totally get it norm norm and I are on the same wavelength. So what’s what’s next for you? Right? So your whole life has been about progress and progression forward and fighting through and building and getting better and expanding. And I mean, it’s, this is such an a kind of an inspirational thing to watch. Like, here’s someone that isn’t just talking about it. They’re actually walking the walk. And I’ve seen that in you for years, everything that you said you would do you are doing. So what’s next? Like? Where do you where do you go? And am I going to see you in? In September in Arizona? Oh, fantastic. Okay. Yeah, I

Speaker 2 1:02:12
haven’t said too much about it. And like publicly, but yes, there’s one small thing that I might have to attend to. So I’m kind of like, Oh, I’m not sure. But I should be. I have half my ticket. I am real close to buying my airline tickets. So. So it should happen. But, um, so why don’t I as I mentioned before, the whole photographic competitions, I am addicted I. So I want to continue to enter, you know, see, as a general trend, my images do better. And that has happened over the past few years. You know, my goal couple years ago was to get more Silver’s and reach that fellow level afford your masters and I did earlier than expected. But it’s a matter of, okay, this is my goal. And I’m just going to do the work. And I’m not going to put any, you know, unrealistic. Like I want to do it in two minutes. You know what I mean? I just, I gave myself a couple of years, I did it any year. So, you know, it’s, it’s a combination of setting that goal, a high goal, but giving myself an achievable timeline to do it, and then doing the work, you know, what’s it going to take to do that I have to learn as much as I possibly can. So the good news is I love learning so I can learn all day long. And then if I have an idea, and it’s a little bit beyond my scope of what I’m able to do, I’m gonna learn how to do it. And I’m going to make sure that I just get better get just get better every single day. So continue on that track. It was my goal at the beginning of this year to get a gold image I’m not expecting I mean, I honestly anytime I enter I’m like, we’ll see we’ll see what happens. I got us for the image that want to go that WP II it received a silver through the portrait masters and I have learned also that I take every score with a grain of salt because different people see it differently and I’m okay with that. You know? So I entered it and WP not knowing and just about fell over when I found out I got a gold one right. I’m like, well, maybe this isn’t a mistake, maybe. Maybe I’m you know, I am getting better. You know, maybe it’s real. So um, so I want to continue to do that. It will it will always be a goal of mine to get a goal through the portrait masters. It’s the first accreditation process I went through. So, and I have told people in the past I may be at before that happens, it’s fine, I’m okay with that. It’s not like five years from now, if I haven’t achieved a goal through them that I’ll be mad. It just helps me to want to do better. And that’s really the goal is just to be better than I was yesterday, it’s not to get that goal, it’s not really to, you know, to achieve any level of success, because I’m the same person. Having achieved a goal that WP than I was two months ago, you know, I am that same person. So. So I will continue to do that I have learned that I love to teach. So I want to do more mentoring, I want to do more of that. But here’s the problem I have, I love what I do. And I love the seniors that I work with, and I love being able to touch those seniors lives and help them see themselves, you know, as beautiful, as unique as awesome, you know. So I don’t ever want to stop doing that. So it’s a matter of, okay, where’s the balance? What, you know, do I have enough time to do these mentoring things? And can I still do what I currently do effectively, and then do both at the same time. So. So that’s kind of a, you know, process that I’m working through. Now I’m creating content and creating ways but to be honest, I haven’t pushed the mentoring as much as you know, some people might, I’m kind of have the mindset that I want things to happen organically. And naturally, if I’m pushing so hard to have something done that maybe it’s not meant to be. So, you know, I will tell you that any mentoring clients that I’ve gotten has been 100%, organically and and I felt great about it. And they felt great about it. It was a wonderful experience. So that is that’s kind of the path I am taking with that. So

Matt Stagliano 1:07:06
yeah, it’s amazing. And I don’t think there’s anyone better suited to be teaching people than you. I mean, you’ve been able to strike this balance between work and personal life and creative work and client work. And it’s something that I’ve always admired about you is your ability to balance life, right? At least from the outside, right, all I see is the duck swimming, I have no idea what the feet are doing underneath, right? So take that with a grain of salt. And I’m sure that whatever I say you will combat but from the outside, it appears like there’s a lot of balance there with with your goal setting. And one thing that I wanted to ask, do you reverse engineer that? Like, do you say, Okay, I want to you went from being a personal trainer to photographer, right? When when you set that goal said, I’m going to be a photographer? Did you reverse engineer that when you enter competitions? Do you say Alright, well, two years from now, in order for me to enter that and potentially win gold? I need to do X, Y and Z? And is that how you build your your timelines to take so much action?

Speaker 2 1:08:12
Yes, I do reverse. For example, when I said that I wanted to achieve fellow, you know, of course, there’s a there’s a specific number of images that your points that you need to have. And then there’s a specific number of Silver’s that you have need to have. So. So I knew what that number was, I knew that my goal was two years out, I figured out how many I would have to enter each round. And honestly, I doubled it, I doubled the amount that I would need in any round, because I figured we’re just gonna see, you know, first of all, it gives me more practice. Second of all, you know, I just want to make sure that I have the points I need. And then we’ll make sure that I get the silvers that I need. So that was kind of my mindset. And I think the the round that I achieved the fellow level. I think I needed three, three more Silver’s. And I needed I can’t remember how many points. And so, you know, I was I entered as much as I could, I made sure that I had enough to at the very least have the point level that I needed, knowing that there was a possibility that I wouldn’t get the Silver’s that I needed, but I did you know, So had I not done that math and figured out what I needed then I would have had to wait another round to get just the points and so, so yeah, there are some there are some math to it, but there’s also some level of being okay with where I am, like, I hate the feeling of disappointment. I hate it and I don’t want to live that way. So, you know, any given situation where I would go into a competition, I don’t go in saying, I’m going to get this, then if I don’t, then, oh, you know, I don’t want to live that way I want it. If it doesn’t happen, what can I learn? What can I learn from that experience? What can I change for next round, and I’m not going to be disappointed, it was an opportunity for me to learn, and I become better. And I saw what I, you know, potentially did wrong there. I’m going to change that for next round and see what happens. And I have just found it’s just a more freeing way to live. I, you know, I just don’t want to be sad and add that fear. That’s, that’s driven by me. You know, so why would I add that onto that pressure onto myself? I don’t want to do that.

Matt Stagliano 1:10:58
So, yeah, it’s, you’ve been able to remove a lot of ego from your work, right. And there’s so many people that are tied to whatever validation for, you know, I got X amount of points for this image, or didn’t get silver or didn’t get gold, or, you know, my friends didn’t like, or my family, like, whatever, people tie so much of their ego to the work. And it’s natural, but being able to separate yourself from the outcome versus the journey. Right, which is where you really seem to be excelling, right is just, all right, well, the outcome is gonna be what the outcome is, I will be at my best at that point, whatever that is. But it’s this in between time between now and then where the good stuff happens, right? It seems like you really excel in that area. And it just shows because the end product, the output is so spectacular, right? It’s it’s a natural occurrence of all of that work. And I don’t think people find enough pleasure in that journey to really see the value in it. Right? And so yeah, it’s just something I’ve always kind of seen. And anytime we fall into a conversation, I’m struck by how much you’re constantly in that student mindset, constantly learning and then it just, you know, oh, yeah, I’m just gonna drop on over here, this amazing image, and just, you know, crush everybody else. Oh, my God, thanks. Sorry. about myself.

Speaker 2 1:12:30
I’m a competition. I mean, period. It’s not a competition between me and somebody else. It’s not a competition with me, to me. It’s a journey, just like you said, it’s a journey. And you know, we should enjoy this journey we’re on, you know, so that’s bottom line.

Matt Stagliano 1:12:50
Well, this has been an awesome journey getting to talk to you, I’m so excited to be able to see you in a couple of months. I know. Let’s let’s least try to figure that out. I haven’t bought my plane tickets are booked my hotel or anything like that. I’ll be like, on the flight, I’ll be. But yeah, you know, it’s it’s been incredible to watch. And, you know, I don’t know if I’ve, I’ve had the chance to kind of dig into your process like this before. So I just appreciate you just opening up about it. Where can everybody find you if they’re like, this is the mentor that I have to

Speaker 2 1:13:23
find? All right, so my website is Erica Manning photo er ICA MANINGPHO to.com. Same for my Instagram. And then I believe on Facebook. It’s Eric Manning photography, and those were the mains, the main ones that I focused on. So Gotcha.

Matt Stagliano 1:13:44
Thank you. Thanks for coming by today, for having

Speaker 2 1:13:47
me. It’s been such a pleasure. And I I know we we go back, we go way back. Way back to 2019. But it’s just it’s also been fun to watch your journey and be a part of the morning walk group to to see the evolution of the direction you’re going. I think you’re made for this. I think you’ve got a golden voice and a golden personalities that I’m excited about this. And I’m thrilled and I got a whole hour plus to sit.

Matt Stagliano 1:14:21
I like how you said I’ve got a face for radio there. But diplomatic, diplomatic, it’s amazing. You’re so good at this. Now, it’s been amazing. Thank you so much. And thanks for just showing up every morning and giving of yourself it’s just something that I know we’re all better off for it for you just kind of showing up and sharing your experience. So thank you so much. And so I will see you in the room. And hopefully if I’m ever passing through Columbus. I’ll stop by and just scream your name until I can find out where you

Speaker 2 1:14:56
live. You need to give me a heads up if you’re headed this way. cuz I will I’ll treat you with style here in Columbus

Matt Stagliano 1:15:04
you’re just looking to get rid of stuff out of your property all you’re trying to do this yeah bringing you all bring you Erica thanks I will see you soon okay

Unknown Speaker 1:15:15
Okay sounds good bye